Questions on system set up

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Questions on system set up

Postby hoffman3 » November 20th, 2014, 10:29 pm

I spoke with Tommy earlier this week on my system and how it is set up. I have a St. Croix Auburn stove that I put a Cross Link Conversion in over a year ago. We are heating a 1680 sq. foot ranch style, open concept home with in floor heat on a slab. The home is new construction with 6" walls. The stove sits in an addition to the main home that used to be part of the garage and did not have any heat. We put the stove in this room to heat it and added the Cross Link system to heat the rest of the home. The stove is up and running but it is still not working quite how like it should. The insert does just fine! The system is set up with a main loop running into the garage through a ceiling mounted blower controlled by an aquastat. If this loop is run alone the water leaving the stove is at 150 degrees and returning at 130. The problem comes when I try to put water into the floor.

Cross Link Conversion hook up photos November2014 edit.jpg
This photo shows the set up. The pump on the right is the original pump from the gas boiler. The pump on the left draws water from the main loop from the pellet stove.
Cross Link Conversion hook up photos November2014 edit.jpg (444.82 KiB) Viewed 4029 times


In the photo above, when both pumps run the temperature of the water drops drastically.

In the photo below with just the one circulating pump running, pushing water through the other two non-running pumps, water will go into the floor between 120 degrees and 100 degrees and loose 11 to 14 degrees. The only thing is this does not seem to be heating the whole floor.

Storage tank and circulating pump.jpg
Storage tank and circulating pump.jpg (437.98 KiB) Viewed 4029 times



In the photo below the returning water coming in from the far left side of the return does not seem to ever heat up like it should. When the gas boiler runs these lines do heat up so I do not think it is an issue with the lines. Maybe this is the best the system can do?

Floor supply and return.jpg
Floor supply and return.jpg (403 KiB) Viewed 4029 times


A local heating contractor helped me hook this up last year. When he returned this year to help me again he was not really sure why we hooked it up like we did the first time. In talking to Tommy, if I understand him correctly, it would probably be best to set up a circulating pump to draw from the storage tank instead of bleeding water off the main loop.

At this point I am not really sure which way to turn and do not really want to just keep randomly changing things to see if it will help out. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Hopefully I explained this so it makes some sense.



Steve
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby tommy » November 24th, 2014, 9:33 pm

I think I would understand a hand drawning of your system better .Your pictures are great it's just hard to see all the water flows that are going on and where each pump is getting and retuning the water that it is useing.I think you have pumps pumping from one supply line not from the supply tank and they are starving one an another.
Here is dia from central boiler one loop to and from the pellet stove ( is the one loop bottom of dia going and coming from the left ) thru a side arm and into and out of the boiler .The water in the boiler supply tank ( lets say it is 5 gallons ) is being heated from the crosslink kit .Then the boiler can use it's pumps for different zones as needed all pumps get there own water supply from the boilers 5 gallon supply.

http://www.centralboiler.com/Tech/C210.pdf
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby hoffman3 » November 25th, 2014, 11:01 pm

Heating System drawing Nov 2014.jpg
Heating System drawing Nov 2014.jpg (92.44 KiB) Viewed 3988 times
Here is a drawing of how the system is currently hooked up.
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby tommy » November 28th, 2014, 12:29 am

If you watch this customers video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKPYZK7ohEo )

from 2 min's and 40 sec,s to 3 min's you will see that his system has three zone pumps each taking water from the same bigger manufold then the piping for the zone it is supplying.( 2 inch maniflod with 3 different 3/4 lines x 3= 2.25 ) If all three pumps are running at ones . ( and if equal ) one of the pumps is being starved .25 (or so ) of the valum of water . ( if one pump is stronger than the other or others or if one zones loop is longer it has enought trouble to still get what it needs )

Your pumps are taking water from one 3/4 inch line for three pumps and pushing thru other pumps that are not allways pumping ( Inline somehow witch equals 1/4 inch of water flow to each pump )

One small line is not a manifold, so your pumps are not able to get the water supply ( Gallons per min ) needed to flow properly .Each pump needs all the water it can take . Here is all so a picture of two pumps pumping at different GPM .To two different zones NOT starving each other even if one pumps pumps 10 GPM and the other needs 2 GPM ) because of the 6 gallons of water supply. ( that they both share from useing different hole
!cid__0914001449b[1].jpg
top
!cid__0914001449b[1].jpg (71.56 KiB) Viewed 3977 times







The return the water, they use Share back to the 6 gallon buffer tank. ( In your case the boilers water supply in the boiler )
!cid__0914001449a[1].jpg
!cid__0914001449a[1].jpg (64.4 KiB) Viewed 3977 times








Yes they both share one return hole at the top of the 6 gallon tank via the t fitting. (However not perfect each should have no restrictions ) The water pressure of two pumps helps each other to push the water thru the T or a Y fitting at a faster GPM.And being very close the the tank helps alot . (Only on return lines sometimes one can get by with 2 returns into one ).

I believe all so your kits loop is not on it's own recycling the water out of and directly back into the tank.Causing the tank water supply not tobe recycled and recharging the waters temp to a higher energy level temp.
file.jpg
file.jpg (64.52 KiB) Viewed 3977 times
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby hoffman3 » December 13th, 2014, 12:15 pm

Since the last post and our phone conversation I have been looking at options on how to run the lines. I am attaching a drawing of one of the possible solutions to get better flow to the in-floor system. To do this the gas boiler would be bypassed. Water would be supplied from the 6 gallon storage tank into the floor system. The return line would tee into the return line from the loop going to the garage. The storage tank only has three inlet/outlet fittings so the return has to tee in somehow. If I understand things correctly this is not the ideal return setup but should work.

In looking at the VersHydro boiler construction it has a brazed heat exchanger that uses water from the internal domestic hot water tank to provide heat for the hydronic in-floor heat system instead of having a separate boiler storage tank. I have been advised to not plumb in water from the pellet stove system to this boiler. There appear to be ways to do this but for now I will proceed following the drawing below unless someone sees something that is messed up.
Attachments
Heating system drawing Dec 2014 edit #1.jpg
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby tommy » December 13th, 2014, 7:17 pm

hoffman3 wrote:Since the last post and our phone conversation I have been looking at options on how to run the lines. I am attaching a drawing of one of the possible solutions to get better flow to the in-floor system. To do this the gas boiler would be bypassed. Water would be supplied from the 6 gallon storage tank into the floor system. The return line would tee into the return line from the loop going to the garage. The storage tank only has three inlet/outlet fittings so the return has to tee in somehow. If I understand things correctly this is not the ideal return setup but should work.

In looking at the VersHydro boiler construction it has a brazed heat exchanger that uses water from the internal domestic hot water tank to provide heat for the hydronic in-floor heat system instead of having a separate boiler storage tank. I have been advised to not plumb in water from the pellet stove system to this boiler. There appear to be ways to do this but for now I will proceed following the drawing below unless someone sees something that is messed up.


Does'nt your 6 gallon tank have a cold in , hot out, a drain, and a pressure relieve valve Like most of them ? Then you couldn't you t the relieve valve hole ?
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cad5ebae-0752-4b4e-91de-82b2bdc58716_400.jpg
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby hoffman3 » December 21st, 2014, 4:35 pm

The tank only has three hookups. Cold in, hot out and a pressure relief valve.
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby royerm » February 9th, 2015, 2:42 pm

hoffman3 wrote:The tank only has three hookups. Cold in, hot out and a pressure relief valve.

Where did you get that 6 gals tank?????

Thx :)
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby tommy » February 10th, 2015, 10:39 am

: Installing Infomation and helpfull Links

Postby tommy » May 1st, 2011, 3:29 am

Here is some Links to 6 Gallon Storage or Buffer tanks that I like ( Only because they look nice than round once )

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006GVO1M/ref ... B0006GVO1M
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Re: Questions on system set up

Postby tommy » February 10th, 2015, 10:44 am

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